Curse

Chris616263 · Dec 24, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

There's a simple solution to all this Perma nonsense:

Let the ghouls overrun Tenpenny Tower. After Roy Phillips gives you the ghoul mask; unequip your body armor and run around the wasteland in your underwear, wielding only a Shishkebab. Even the Deathclaws won't want a piece of that.

Scythe Of Thunder · Dec 24, 2008, 11:18 PM // 23:18

If you do anything with heroes in order to HM it is all sabway does this mean that SoLS and Soul Reaping need to be nerfed because in PvE a N/Rt is a better healer than a monk. We all take what we are given and use it how we choose and we deal with. No one forces you to use anything.

Chris616263 · Dec 24, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythe Of Thunder

If you do anything with heroes in order to HM it is all sabway does this mean that SoLS and Soul Reaping need to be nerfed because in PvE a N/Rt is a better healer than a monk. We all take what we are given and use it how we choose and we deal with. No one forces you to use anything.

Sabway doesn't work against Deathclaws! You need the dart gun and a good rifle, like the Lincoln Repeater.

shoyon456 · Dec 24, 2008, 11:29 PM // 23:29

How can it be a cheat if ANET MADE THE SKILL? I'm sure anet knows something or two about the skills THEY make and change. They put the skills to make perma sf possible in game, all people did was figure out the puzzle.

This is what guildwars is all about, combining skills to create desired effects and running those builds to perfection, to whatever ends. Perma sf, while perhaps over-effective, still requires a limited amount of knowledge and practice. The point is that Anet makes the game, and unless you intentionally tamper with skills, you are NOT CHEATING.

The only skill that you can even begin to call a cheat is ursans blessing, because there was no combination of skills or skill knowledge or practice needed. However, thats not to say that every ursan group is/was pro. Many flat out failed.

And im sure its been said, you said "Just so somebody could farm...I have a job,..." Well, you start talking about someone else and then make it about you. The universe DOES NOT revolve around you. If you have a problem with something in game, AVOID IT. Its like an abortion, if you don't like them, dont have one. You have no right to affect other's lives based on your personal feelings.

Raku Clayman · Dec 24, 2008, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris616263

There's a simple solution to all this Perma nonsense:

Let the ghouls overrun Tenpenny Tower. After Roy Phillips gives you the ghoul mask; unequip your body armor and run around the wasteland in your underwear, wielding only a Shishkebab. Even the Deathclaws won't want a piece of that.

That's how I played it the first time. First I convinced everyone to leave and let the ghouls in. I didn't like Roy Phillips attitude after the ghouls took over, so I killed him and all the rest of the ghouls. Then I looted the rooms. I didn't take over the Tenpenny Tower because I liked my place in Megaton.

The shishkebab was one of my favorite weapons. Nothing like it in GW.

Raku Clayman · Dec 24, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris616263

Sabway doesn't work against Deathclaws! You need the dart gun and a good rifle, like the Lincoln Repeater.

The Lincoln Repeater is a wimpy weapon. Give me the A3 21 Plasma Rifle any day.

Daenara · Dec 24, 2008, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

And to put something on the fire: Kill SF. Kill PvE-only skills. Kill PvP/PvE split. Nerf cons. (did I forget something?)

Just wanted to quote Ash for awesomeness.

This is true.. this would make me happy.

Asplode · Dec 25, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

You could always give PvP a shot, if all else fails.

MagmaRed · Dec 25, 2008, 12:06 AM // 00:06

I liked Shadow Form best when it was used for farming by an A/Me with Arcane Echo and Shadow of Haste. Retreat when it ends, not keep it up 100% of the time. When NF and GW:EN introduced new skills to allow to to be maintained constantly, it changed the game completely. I agree with the OP that this is a 'cheat' of sorts and should be addressed by Anet. Kinda sad when teams used to form for UW and FoW clears using Warriors, Monks, Elementalists, Necros, and Rangers, occassionally Dervishes, Ritualists, and Mesmers, and now it is exclusively for Assassin and Necro.

Bug John · Dec 25, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

yay, another "QQ nerf this anet plz" thread

so, you want to pug elite areas ? that alone, sir, proves you fail at GW

pve pugs in elite areas = fail and/or ragequits 75% of the time (much less in fow or uw, but can they even be called elite anymore ?)

find a decent pve guild, or a pve friend list with a few people who share your point of view, and have fun

farmerfez · Dec 25, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

lel i blowed up megaton too lel

[DE] · Dec 25, 2008, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bug John

yay, another "QQ nerf this anet plz" thread

so, you want to pug elite areas ? that alone, sir, proves you fail at GW

pve pugs in elite areas = fail and/or ragequits 75% of the time (much less in fow or uw, but can they even be called elite anymore ?)

find a decent pve guild, or a pve friend list with a few people who share your point of view, and have fun

And the reason why elite areas can't be called elite anymore is.....

Ding Ding Ding

Because of SF, Cryway and the like!

People may not want to admit it (because it's all they can run without failing) but all gimmick skills do is kill the game.

Chocobo1 · Dec 25, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Everything after the first post in this thread is retarded. Excluding this post.

Damian979 · Dec 25, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Congratulations! You have started the 1,000,000th QQ about SF thread!

A11Eur0 · Dec 25, 2008, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

And the reason why elite areas can't be called elite anymore is.....

Ding Ding Ding

Because of SF, Cryway and the like!

People may not want to admit it (because it's all they can run without failing) but all gimmick skills do is kill the game.

Uhhh...no. They keep people in the game. If people could only complete those areas with guild teams or pugs, they'd be dead. I.E. Deep and Urgoz...next to impossible to pug those areas without running cryway with permas, so before cryway became big, they were dead areas. Deep less so because of the steel wall build but even that wasn't popular unless you were in a guild or on someone's friend's list. Now you can actually go there, pug a group and get the chest. Nerf SF and you'll see it dead again. UW before ursan and speed clear: 55/ss or 600/smite farming. Or trap farming. Or pug failures in Normal mode. FoW was the same plus guild group.

Nerfing builds that allow casual players to have fun in high-end areas and actually complete them is what's killing GW. People want fast, easy ways of doing things and reaping the rewards. If you take away all fast ways of completing things, you're forcing them to spend frustrating hours to maybe complete something, so they're not going to do it. They're going to move on to other games. Only the hardcore dedicated GW players will stick it out and join guilds that complete these areas balanced.

I just think people who want to see SF removed are just people who don't like using it, or can't be asked to pay attention longer than 20 seconds in order to use it, and are pissed that people who do/can are reaping the benefits. They can't partake so they want to ruin everyone else's chances. "Zomg how do you get all that phat lewt!?!?!? Aww, that's boring, so I don't do it. Wow, this is unfair, you get so much more than I do, NERF NERF NERF!"

I find it hard to believe that all the people screaming for the removal of perma SF are doing it out of a sense of nobility. Even if they are...why? How does my using perma SF to farm my own titles hurt you? If you're going to hurt people like me who don't directly profit from my farming (I spend/use what I farm, I don't sell it except to the merchants), just to get rid of the people farming strictly for profit(ecto sellers, unid sellers, consumable item sellers) just because they're turning a bigger profit than you are...phht. Hell, powertraders make 234098092834x more profit for the time spent if they're good...how about nerfing the trade system?

Ghost Dog · Dec 25, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterT69

And it's people like you who try to focus on everyone going against a certain skill to draw attention away from certain skills that "need a nerf" but don't want A-net to know about it. People like me don't want to spend hours on end doing redundant things like grinding and hell, even some PVP. If I did, I'd be playing WoW.

And honestly, not everyone thinks SF is an ugly monster, and yeah you may say it's noob, but these gimmicky builds like SF and cryway are what makes PVE more enjoyable. But then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

That's a load of shit, pve rewards are basically free now and the feeling of accomplishing anything in this game has been negated by these easy mode farm builds, you say people like you don't feel like spending hours doing redundant things., why on earth did you purchase an MMO?

This game is raeped now and the HoM is a joke, I can't look at someones huge filled HoM without thinking "big whoop you power farmed all of this yay"

If this crap flies in GW2 than forget it.

[DE] · Dec 25, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Uhhh...no. They keep people in the game. If people could only complete those areas with guild teams or pugs, they'd be dead. I.E. Deep and Urgoz...next to impossible to pug those areas without running cryway with permas, so before cryway became big, they were dead areas. Deep less so because of the steel wall build but even that wasn't popular unless you were in a guild or on someone's friend's list. Now you can actually go there, pug a group and get the chest. Nerf SF and you'll see it dead again. UW before ursan and speed clear: 55/ss or 600/smite farming. Or trap farming. Or pug failures in Normal mode. FoW was the same plus guild group.

Nerfing builds that allow casual players to have fun in high-end areas and actually complete them is what's killing GW. People want fast, easy ways of doing things and reaping the rewards. If you take away all fast ways of completing things, you're forcing them to spend frustrating hours to maybe complete something, so they're not going to do it. They're going to move on to other games. Only the hardcore dedicated GW players will stick it out and join guilds that complete these areas balanced.

Not at all. There have already been numerous threads discussing this situation. The problem is that with the introduction of PvE-only skills the community has become even more lazy then before. We have tons of OP builds at our disposal and even a nice site, pvxwiki.com to find them at! Urgoz, The Deep, DoA, etc were all called 'elite' missions for a reason. They were supposed to be tough, they were supposed to take a long time to do, etc. I don't understand why you think all the elite missions should be frolicking with bad players using OP builds?

When Guild Wars first came out Anet promoted Skill over Time. That was good for a while. Then Anet decided to make Time over Skill with the introduction of grind! And finally Anet just decided to throw away Skill and reduce Time.

The point being, everyone and there moms these days can do the HM areas succesfully. While that's well and good I highly doubt that your mom has ever played guild wars before - and that's a problem. When someone who has never or barely played a game can complete an elite area just as fast, if not faster than those who have been playing and perfecting their skills for countless hours - there's a major problem. Forget arguments about how without PvE skills and such the game would be dead. If anything, PvE skills were the ones that killed it.

A11Eur0 · Dec 25, 2008, 12:48 AM // 00:48

If you don't want to use the easy builds, don't use them. Get groups together to run your slow, hard ways. NObody is hurting you at all by playing their own way in these "elite" areas. What, are they making your efforts meaningless? Nobody cares how you play your game, except you. Leave others alone if they want to play a certain way.

Skill>time. Exactly. Casual players are their target. You don't have to spend hours at a time playing GW to achieve something. Before these gimmick builds, which were created BY THE PLAYERBASE I'll hve you know, only non-casual hardcore no-lifer gamers could sit down and actually complete UW or FoW or DoA.

If you want the prestige of not running a gimmick build....don't run it. Finish it without the gimmick. Do it faster. Screenshot the achievement. Post it on guru. Revel in your internet Fame. Nobody is preventing you from doing that but yourself.

Your posts are nothing more than "wah, I did this and I didn't use a gimmick but you can do it faster than me waaaaaaah!" You know what you did, You know how you did it, that's all that matters.

And I'll say this as well: people who run record times using these gimmick builds consistently have more skill than the general playerbase of GW. Because it takes coordination, teamwork, timing, knowledge of the area being completed, and knowledge of your skill bar. You can't just toss on a pvx skill bar, go in and finish in a record time. You hear about all these 10 minute UW clears, but what you don't hear about are the runs with noobs taking 45 minutes to an hour with multiple consets, or not being completed at all because of noobs not knowing wtf they're supposed to do with their PVX build.

[DE] · Dec 25, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Skill>Time only works when skill is involved. GW PvE has no skill anymore. To say that only hardcore no-lifer gamers could sit down and complete UW, FoW, or DoA is a joke. You've clearly underestimated the stupidity of the PvE community. If you need examples go find old mallyx threads.

The whole idea of 'omgzor u duntz has2use da builds if'n u dunt wunt 22222!!!' is completely retarded. I don't use them because I don't go for the fastest times or speedruns. It's still possible to do all the areas in a reasonable time without them - but if you ARE going for speed runs or PUGing, you need to use them. Being a necessity for a PUG is a huge problem. Running the exact same builds everywhere because they are that OP only encourages lack of skillful play. See 'guilds that declare themselves good' for examples of such.

dasmitchies · Dec 25, 2008, 01:08 AM // 01:08

kk I have done my share of whining on the state of god nerfs, SF,Ursan etc. Mostly because my mesmer can't solo very well (duh) without SF. My argument is the same, Pugs for pugs sake is dead, has been dead, will be dead. This is how people fill their HOM. Now that SF is a sin only skill and UW has been nerfed to the point that a normal clear will fail Anet will certainly finish nerfing shadow form. I find this laughable as the most abused farming skill in the game is protective spirit. Most everybody who qq's about these other skills has used a 600 or 55 monk. Go figure. Let everyone play the game as they wish. Anet doesn't want a 1 class only area so don't worry about SF, it dies in feb update at the latest. As for the next godway? It will come, there are not a lot of developers but still a lot of players. Someone will figure out a new godway and everyone will copy it, and whining will begin again. PVE is solo play, let it go folks.